Curse

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 01:47 AM // 01:47

So since Anets third priority after Dervishes and Paragons is smiting I figured I'd make a thread about it here.

Do you have any suggestions?
Do you think this update is warranted?

I personally think smiting prayers is not something that has priority over Ranger and Elementalists buffs. However I do think the attribute could use some tweaking and any positive change would be welcome.

Some (PvE) suggestions I would have for anet are:

Balthazars Pendulum
Enchantment:For 1...5 seconds you deal 40 holy damage to foes who attack or use a skill on you. If you are knocked down while Balthazars Pendulum is active all adjacent foes are knocked down.

Defenders Zeal
Hex: Hexes target foe and all nearby foes for 5...21 seconds. Every time a hexed foe attacks or uses a spell you gain 1 energy. Hexed foes deal -1...15 damage with attacks.

Shield of Judgement
5 1 15
Enchantment: For 8...18 seconds you have +40 armor and deal +5...30 damage with smiting magic skills.

Word of Censure
5 1 3
Hex:For 3 seconds target foe and all adjacent foes cannot cast spells. At the end of this hex foes takes 1..60 holy damage and are on fire for 1...7 seconds.

These are probably all bad ideas...but they are meant to start discussion more than anything.

Essence Snow · Aug 17, 2010, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Revert Holy Wrath...I miss my 600s =(

FallenAngel_ · Aug 17, 2010, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Balthazar's Pendulum: Strike target for for 20..80 Holy Damage. If target foe was moving or attacking that foe is knocked down.

Defender's Zeal: When ever target foe attacks he takes 15..45 Holy Damage. If target foe is under a stance it is removed.

Word of Censure: Target foe takes 15..75 Holy Damage. If target foe is casting a spell he suffers daze for ??..?? seconds.

some ideas

X Dr Pepper X · Aug 17, 2010, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Nerf Ray of Judgment.

Monks don't need the best nuke in the game, and yes, it is the mathematically most damaging nuke in the game from a single skill. Science.

Ray of Judgment. Elite Spell. 5e. 2s cast. 20sec recharge. Use RoJ on target ally to create a beam of light on their location that damages adjacent foes for 5 seconds. Each second a foe in radius is inflicted with 2...24...32 holy damage and inflicted with burning for 1 second.

Shield of Judgment. Elite Enchantment Spell. 10e. 1s cast. 20s recharge. Target ally is enchanted with a Shield of Judgment for 2...8...10 seconds. Enemies attacking that ally are knocked down and receive 2...24...32 damage.

Word of Censure. Elite Spell. 5e. 1s cast. 8sec recharge. Cast WoC on a target ally and remove 1 condition and hex. For each affliction removed, adjacent enemies suffer 2...24...32 damage.

Defender's Zeal. Elite Enchantment Spell. 5e. 2s cast. 15s recharge. For 12...24...28 seconds, target ally is enchanted with Defender's Zeal. They have a 20% chance to dodge melee attacks. Whenever this ally is healed, all adjacent monsters receive 1...12...16 damage. Ends after 8 heals.

Balthazar's Pendulum. Elite Spell. 5e. 1/2 s cast. 12s recharge. Target monster receives 2...24...32 damage and a 2...24...32 damage to nearby foes if it is attacking. If that monster is adjacent to an ally, it is knocked down and weakened for 8 seconds.

Made with PvE in mind. Except for Balthazar's Pendulum which is tailored for balance within both PvP and PvE.

Fate Crusher · Aug 17, 2010, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Word of Censure
5 1 3
Hex:For 3 seconds target foe and all adjacent foes cannot cast spells. At the end of this hex foes takes 1..60 holy damage and are on fire for 1...7 seconds.

So for 5 energy, you can keep foe+adjacent foes from casting permanently? And also do 60 damage and burning? Why have 8 skill slots, if you can just run this....

Anyways, anything to make Smiting fun again would be great. But ever since Ritualists, smiting and buffing off a frontline character isn't as effective. I vote less protective Smite skills (smite hex/condition and RoD are fine) and more godly smiting.

snowman relic · Aug 17, 2010, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Nerf Ray of Judgment.

Monks don't need the best nuke in the game, and yes, it is the mathematically most damaging nuke in the game from a single skill. Science.

I personally belive it doesnt need to be nerfed because monks dont have that much ability for alot of damage compaired to other professions yes i know monks shouldent need that much damage but every profession needs a good skill and since monk is now in hot competition with resto ritualists and imbagon paras nerfing their main attack would be killing them off

Masmar · Aug 17, 2010, 10:02 AM // 10:02

People say there is no reason for monks to have the best nuke in the game, why?
Who says monks can't nuke? They have the smiting line, why shouldnt they have a good nuke in it. Thats like saying elementalists shouldnt have AoE spells in earth magic, it's just another role that the profession can play

snowman relic · Aug 17, 2010, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

So for 5 energy, you can keep foe+adjacent foes from casting permanently? And also do 60 damage and burning? Why have 8 skill slots, if you can just run this....

Anyways, anything to make Smiting fun again would be great. But ever since Ritualists, smiting and buffing off a frontline character isn't as effective. I vote less protective Smite skills (smite hex/condition and RoD are fine) and more godly smiting.

maybe increase it to for 3..5..7 seconds and recharge at 10 seconds so thats is not a possiblility

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

So for 5 energy, you can keep foe+adjacent foes from casting permanently? And also do 60 damage and burning? Why have 8 skill slots, if you can just run this....

Anyways, anything to make Smiting fun again would be great. But ever since Ritualists, smiting and buffing off a frontline character isn't as effective. I vote less protective Smite skills (smite hex/condition and RoD are fine) and more godly smiting.

I realized this when I went to bed last night. Add some conditional or add moar recharge.

Also why should RoJ get nerfed again? It's a good nuke but it's not overpowered. It's got a tiny AoE range.

Luminarus · Aug 17, 2010, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Defenders Zeal:

10e, 1 Cast, 15 Recharge

For 10 seconds Target Allies Attacks have a 25% chance to Knock Down attacking foes, and you gain 1 energy every time that ally attacks.

Might need to tweak numbers, or quarterbacking would be too easy, in terms of duration, cost, and return.

One of the non elites should be like a smiting Spirit Bond, every time you take over 60 damage, that foe, or adjacent foes take some damage. Would need to be careful that it doesnt do too much damage.

Their all ive thought of so far.

Lanier · Aug 17, 2010, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Personally, I think the smiting line is already pretty good as it is. RoJ gives monks a nuke, there are plenty of PBAoE spells, and then there is a lot of hybrid support/damage spells. Spells like reversal of damage, smite condition, and smite hex are what the monk smiting line should be like in my opinion with a few nukes, hexes, the signets, and e-management spells on the side. I really like holy wrath like it is right now because it is now useable in general PvE in a smiter's boon build. I also like defender's zeal as it currently is b/c it gives monks a good e-management option, which they have very few of.

The spells that i can think of off the top of my mind that i would like to see reworked are banish, word of censure, and retribution. I would like to see smite turned into a copy of spear of light and i would like to see those two spells have their recharges lowered to 8ish (non-conditional damage can be lowered if necessary for balance). Finally, I would like to see the signets, particularly signet of judgement, get large decreases to their recharges. Maybe give signet of judgement a 10 sec recharge and give signet of bane and signet of rage a 12 sec recharge. Oh, and signet of mystic wrath needs a slight rework as well in my opinion.

maxxfury · Aug 17, 2010, 04:00 PM // 16:00

I know it would kill the lore aspect, but removing the double damage to undead would allow the damage aspect of the line to be beefed up a little...and that way they only need to balance the skill with one type of output instead of essentially balancing 2 skills. but meh, thats just an "off the top of my head" thought

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Personally, I think the smiting line is already pretty good as it is. RoJ gives monks a nuke, there are plenty of PBAoE spells, and then there is a lot of hybrid support/damage spells. Spells like reversal of damage, smite condition, and smite hex are what the monk smiting line should be like in my opinion with a few nukes, hexes, the signets, and e-management spells on the side. I really like holy wrath like it is right now because it is now useable in general PvE in a smiter's boon build. I also like defender's zeal as it currently is b/c it gives monks a good e-management option, which they have very few of.

The spells that i can think of off the top of my mind that i would like to see reworked are banish, word of censure, and retribution. I would like to see smite turned into a copy of spear of light and i would like to see those two spells have their recharges lowered to 8ish (non-conditional damage can be lowered if necessary for balance). Finally, I would like to see the signets, particularly signet of judgement, get large decreases to their recharges. Maybe give signet of judgement a 10 sec recharge and give signet of bane and signet of rage a 12 sec recharge. Oh, and signet of mystic wrath needs a slight rework as well in my opinion.

Defenders Zeal is very meh energy management in my experience. I think it really needs a buff.

As for the signets I agree. I also think SoJ should KD all foes AND deal damage to all foes. Then it will be competitive with RoJ in my opinion. Obviously some kind of clause should be in the skill description to prevent mesmer abuse. Signet of Mystic Wrath would be great if it didn't have a 2 second cast time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

I know it would kill the lore aspect, but removing the double damage to undead would allow the damage aspect of the line to be beefed up a little...and that way they only need to balance the skill with one type of output instead of essentially balancing 2 skills. but meh, thats just an "off the top of my head" thought

I don't think they should get rid of that. That is what makes the damage type unique. Also I don't think there are enough fragile undead to warrant a change like that. I mean are there any undead in factions at all besides minions?

Xsiriss · Aug 17, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Ok firstly RoJ is a mediocre skill, ele's provide much betetr damage support whilst monks are able to stick to a better role. The ideology behind revamping smiting prayers needs to aim ai making them supportive and offensive (a bit like Earth Magic really):

Balthazars Pendulum: Make it a powerful version of RoD, adding 'The next foe that strikes target ally is knocked down'

Defenders Zeal: (Enchanment) for XX seconds Allies in the area gain 1 energy whenever they target or attack a foe who is attacking or using a skill and gain +10 armour.

Word of Censure: Target foe and all adjacent foes take 1...100 holy damage, 3seconds the next skill they use is interrupted.

On top of this, normal skills should recieve number tweakings (eg more conditional damage on signet of rage)

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Ok firstly RoJ is a mediocre skill, ele's provide much betetr damage support whilst monks are able to stick to a better role.

I have to disagree. RoJ is one of the few skills in its vein that can still deal hefty damage in hard mode.

By itself it deals around 230 armor ignoring damage along with burning for about 7 seconds overall which is another 98 damage. So if you arcane echo it you can deal in the 500-600 range if the foes stay within blast radius the full duration.

Then it's got a low recharge (20 is low for DoT AoE in my opinion).

The only thing that is kinda weak about RoJ is its Area of Effect radius. It could be bigger I guess. Besides that it's a great skill.

X Dr Pepper X · Aug 17, 2010, 10:39 PM // 22:39

RoJ is the single most powerful skill in the game. I have yet to find a single point and click nuke skill more powerful than RoJ. Do the math. No bullshit.

Stop hugging your monks and claiming they're not overpowered as hell.

RoJ causes at r16 smiting, 48 holy damage. Holy damage is armor ignoring and cannot be mitigated. 8 seconds of burning which causes -7 degen at -2 health per second.

5(48) + 14(8) = 240 + 112 = 352 total damage over 8 seconds.

Lets put that into perspective shall we? Here are a display of single skill nukes damage calculated all over 8 seconds or the duration of the entire nuke. For this purpose our test dummy is a 96 AL NM monster warrior.

Meteor Shower @ 16 Fire Magic: 119 fire damage 3x each 3 seconds over 9 seconds. Total of 357 damage over 9 seconds. Mitigated by target armor to 191.11 damage total.

Savannah Heat @ 16 Fire Magic: 21 fire damage each second over 5 seconds with +21 fire damage each second. 315 total damage over 5 seconds. Mitigated to a mere 168.8 damage by armor.

Ray of Judgment would have done all its armor ignoring damage to the warrior for an astounding 352 damage.

That's almost twice the efficiency of Savannah Heat and easily trumps meteor shower.

The worst part is this is without factoring in prots and extra armor for HM monsters. The ele's damage output would be severely worse.

Why should a monk have damage capability that out does a class where its intended primary effective role in both PvE and PvP is damage dealing?

Riddle me that.

maxxfury · Aug 17, 2010, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Why should a monk have damage capability that out does a class where its only primary effective role in both PvE and PvP is damage dealing?

Riddle me that.

Because the elem can out heal and out prot a monk hands down?

Hi im maintaining prot bond on everyone! buffing all the physicals with GDW, splattering spiritbond on everyone, and infuse, infuse,infuse, infuse,infuse, infuse, what? my energy is still full? and i got all my health back by castign another spirit bond on someone?!......

"wow what?, oh yeah! thats right im the Ether renewal infuser elementalist...lol monks? what do they do? they nuke of course!!"

riddle me THAT one, why the elem does THAT so much better?

Welcome to role reversal...cant have your cake and eat it..

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

RoJ is the single most powerful skill in the game. I have yet to find a single point and click nuke skill more powerful than RoJ. Do the math. No bullshit.

Stop hugging your monks and claiming they're not overpowered as hell.

RoJ causes at r16 smiting, 48 holy damage. Holy damage is armor ignoring and cannot be mitigated. 8 seconds of burning which causes -7 degen at -2 health per second.

5(48) + 14(8) = 240 + 112 = 352 total damage over 8 seconds.

Lets put that into perspective shall we? Here are a display of single skill nukes damage calculated all over 8 seconds or the duration of the entire nuke. For this purpose our test dummy is a 96 AL NM monster warrior.

Meteor Shower @ 16 Fire Magic: 119 fire damage 3x each 3 seconds over 9 seconds. Total of 357 damage over 9 seconds. Mitigated by target armor to 191.11 damage total.

Savannah Heat @ 16 Fire Magic: 21 fire damage each second over 5 seconds with +21 fire damage each second. 315 total damage over 5 seconds. Mitigated to a mere 168.8 damage by armor.

Ray of Judgment would have done all its armor ignoring damage to the warrior for an astounding 352 damage.

That's almost twice the efficiency of Savannah Heat and easily trumps meteor shower.

The worst part is this is without factoring in prots and extra armor for HM monsters. The ele's damage output would be severely worse.

Why should a monk have damage capability that out does a class where its intended primary effective role in both PvE and PvP is damage dealing?

Riddle me that.

Just because Elementalists kinda blow doesn't mean Monks should be nerfed. elementalists should just be buffed. I mean in that same period of time a sin could deal around 1,000 if not more damage to 3 foes with a scythe.

X Dr Pepper X · Aug 17, 2010, 11:42 PM // 23:42

For the record I don't believe Eles should outheal or out prot a monk. That goes for rangers, sins, and warriors being better with scythes than a dervish as well.

The point is that professions are outdoing eachother at their intended primary functions and its #$#^ing ridiculous.

Just look at Mesme- erm, Elementalist.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 17, 2010, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

For the record I don't believe Eles should outheal or out prot a monk. That goes for rangers, sins, and warriors being better with scythes than a dervish as well.

The point is that professions are outdoing eachother at their intended primary functions and its #$#^ing ridiculous.

Just look at Mesme- erm, Elementalist.

I agree but at the same time Anet is never going to go back and nerf all the overpowered classes.

Let Anet buff the underpowered classes.